We compare the pi N scattering amplitudes that underlie 2 pi-exchange
three-nucleon forces (TBFs) with the experimental pi N amplitudes in t
he form of partial-wave phase shifts and subthreshold invariant amplit
udes. The amplitudes of the Tucson-Melbourne and Brazil TBFs when take
n on-pion-mass-shell predict scattering lengths at threshold and phase
shifts (slightly) above threshold which are in good agreement with th
e experimental amplitudes, except for the S-waves. Partial wave amplit
udes from separable potentials, recently employed in a 2 pi-TBF calcul
ation, were continued below threshold, summed into invariant amplitude
s, and compared with the experimental amplitudes in this kinematic reg
ion, which is most relevant to the kinematics of TBFs. The separable-p
otential invariant amplitudes, in contrast to those of TM and Brazil T
BFs, do not compare well quantitatively with the experimental amplitud
es in this region but have a similar qualitative behaviour. The very s
mall TBF effect in the triton of the separable-potential amplitude app
ears to be due to the pi NN vertex function rather than the pi N ampli
tude itself.